Episode 81 – Making difficult choices: leaving spirituality behind to get a normal job
Updated: Feb 28
When we have the best intentions, making difficult choices can get complicated. If you want a job that helps people, you may have wondered whether you should go for security and stability and get a normal job or be a coach or a healer, for example. If you’ve done a lot of personal development work, you may feel that you want to use your spirituality in your career. Which can make getting a normal job feel like you’re leaving spirituality behind to have a normal career. But is that true? Is the choice really between a normal versus spiritual career?
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Choosing between a normal job of a spiritual career [starts at 00:00:12]
Sometime I'm surprised what I am guided to [starts at 00:08:16]
Sometimes action helps to overcome fears [starts at 00:12:59]
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Oron: Ready? Let's play.
Harris: I wanted to ask a question about work. I have been mostly self employed or doing my own projects for about the last ten years, and I feel that I'm in a matter of crossroads at the moment, where, on the one hand I feel that, actually finding a career in areas that I never thought I would consider before, there feels like quite an expansive energy and quite a challenge, which I quite like. But it also would kind of feel like giving up this kind of spiritual work path in the more black and white sense. Not that I couldn't continue it through everything that I do anyway. But yeah, I guess I'm just kind of wrestling between this idea of going off to explore careers that I've never considered before, and potentially kind of abandoning so much of this spiritual and social work that I've done for such a long time. And I just wondered what your thoughts were on that.
Oron: There are many places that we could take this conversation and we will begin here. There is a tendency that humans and the human mind has to wish to know the future, to ascertain a level of understanding or expectation about what will come so that you feel, in a way, safe.
And so as you project forward in your future, as you take your consciousness to that, and you contemplate what your future will look like, as you take each and every choice, there is a desire for you to calculate and decide and decipher what is going to create the best future for you. But the view with which you take it - most humans, usually - it's quite a long range view.
We invite you to consider children. They do not overthink or they do not extend into their future their perception when they wonder whether they will play with their Legos or their coloring books today. And so we would encourage you to breathe as much as possible and relax yourself into the supportive knowledge of this: You cannot get it wrong. There is no one right answer with either this or everything else that will create the perfect future for you. And there is no wrong answer that will bring you up against difficulties that were not intended in some way by you.
You are the creator of everything. You are the creator of everything. You are the creator of everything. And there is a way that, as you learn to inhabit that in yourself, inhabit the being, the creator of, it is very understandable that minds like to do calculations so that everything is considered, and so that your extended long range future feels like it has been not only considered, but that you have found the best alternative for it.
We will say this: There is no way for you to leave behind the work that you have done because that is inside of you. We spoke previously about the fact that you do not let go of the previous versions of you when you step forward into the more and into the more and into the more and into the more. They are the foundation of everything.
And there is something else here. Many humans have such divided experiences, both of themselves in their inner world and also in their outer world. And there is no play version of you versus a work version of you versus a spirituality version of you. You are you. You are more than you. You are the entirety of the wholeness of the universe. But you are you in all the circumstances. And a lot of the work - or we would say play - that those of you who are wanting to live conscious lives are doing, is the bringing down of the barricades inside of yourself to aspects and parts of yourself.
Give us a moment. Take a breath now and allow yourself to relax into your miraculous body. Your life is not either or. There are many people on the planet right now who are here specifically to show humanity that things are not either or and that they lie upon a spectrum. And yet the perception currently of most humans is that things are this or that. I will choose this or that. And so if contemplating something feels light and exciting and like a challenge in the way that you mentioned, it may be that your energetics are calling you in that direction. And it is when you add the additional perspectives over the top of that that come from your mind, like "I will be leaving something that I care about deeply behind," that the contraction comes and the confusion comes.
We are not saying that you need to take the path towards the challenge of the new. But what we are saying is you are always being guided by your internal wisdom and sometimes it is a process of moving towards something new and gaining a wider perspective so that you can then bring it back to where you started. So it is no longer where you started, but an expansion of where you were previously.
There is no predecreed path that you need to uncover in order to live your best life. And the more relaxed and the more you understand the fact that there are no wrong decisions, because the moment you take a step forward in any decision, the entirety of the universe reconfigures around you based on that choice. That is how powerful you are. You will always be presented with opportunities for more and for more and for more and for more. And you can jump around so much more than what you think. The world is not as heavy. It is not as locked in. It is not as dense as what you sometimes perceive.
And so what our advice to you, dear one, if you wish to take it, is to relax and to know that this is light. This is a playful choice that you are making. And if you take a step forward and you do not like the step that you have taken, that is valuable information. The universe will reconfigure again to create many, many, many paths towards something that is more fulfilling for you.
Your life is not serious. Your life is play. Relax into it, and you will enjoy it so much more. You will feel like you are living in color instead of black and white, and you are taking the steps to get yourself closer and closer and closer to that.
Harris: Thank you. Yeah, it's interesting because I feel so much of what I have envisioned in the past, even the past six months, is a progression on things that I've already been working on and already been doing for so many years. And part of me really loves it. But part of me also feels like I can do a lot of this in my sleep. And the thought of completely changing trajectory is kind of terrifying. But in a sense of that I want to do it. I'm really surprised.
And I feel like there's maybe an old dynamic here, like an old sense that kind of isn't real or I've inherited it from somewhere, that I should be loyal to my old causes and my old commitments and that I should stick to the things that I've previously spent so much time and energy in. And yet I can't deny that the idea of something new is also so compelling and interesting and feels far more exciting than anything else that I had envisioned for myself. And it just really surprised me.
Oron: We wish to congratulate you on your ability to be surprised. There are so many of you that put blinkers up to other possibilities because you have decreed that this is the path that you must follow. And outside of those blinkers, where you are not able to see, the universe is going, "Look at this exciting, amazing option. Do you want to play here?" But because you have decided that forward is the only trajectory available to you, you do not see it.
That excitement energy is powerful. Your ability to perceive it and know it is your power. You are energetically being called to something when that excitement is present in you. And that does not mean that you necessarily need to go there, because again, there are no wrong choices. But notice as you take steps forward into what is calling you from the depths of your soul and you know that it is because it has surprised you that is a wonderful, wonderful thing. You are not superimposing your perspective over the top of the universe and making demands upon it and therefore creating limitations for yourself.
So we congratulate you on your willingness to be surprised. And we will say something else: You will always be evolving to more. You will always be evolving to more. You will always be evolving to more. And when you pre-decree the form that your path needs to take, you limit the capacity that you have to grow and evolve to so much more that will benefit you and the collective around you. It is as though you are a tree and you have decided that this is the only ways that your branches are allowed to grow. And so you form a cage around you so that you shape the branches in the direction that you wish, rather than allowing the magic of the Earth and the energetics to create the branches in the best way possible. We salute you for your willingness to be surprised.
We will say something else. One of Medha's favorite things in this whole spiritual process is how often she is surprised by the things that she is guided to. But sometimes she finds them scary because it is asking her - as it is asking you - to move towards something new. And so sometimes also what may happen is the parts of you that are terrified, as you said, of moving forward to something different than what they have known before will come up with objections. That is not because it is not aligned and it's not even because they don't want you to go in that direction. It's because those parts of you are coming up and getting your attention and going, "Hey, I'm a bit scared. Hey, I'm a bit worried. Hey, this is a bit different."
And so we do not encourage you to walk blindly following your excitement without soothing yourself so that you are entirely in alignment with the steps that you take. That is why you are feeling like you are split in half, because parts of you wants to go one way and the other part wants to go another. And so take the time, take the energy, the attention and spend the connective moments that are required with the parts of you that are not yet in alignment, that have fears, not to argue against them, but in order to hear them and soothe them so that you can, in wholeness, move forward to what it is that you are being called towards.
Harris: Yeah. I feel that. I recognize as well that there are fears that are coming up for me that I know are old and I have a very old relationship with them and that it actually might be good for them, not only for me to tend to them compassionately, but also for them to have new information and new experiences that make their worries less convincing.
Because I feel like we can do all of the emotional and kind of spiritual work in the world. But as I said to one of my own clients a while ago, nothing replaces real world experience. And so I feel like actually moving forward in an area that I've not been in before will give me tools and experiences that no amount of spiritual and emotional work could ever give me. And some of these old fears that have been around for so long might also transform with me in a new version of life or the next or the bigger or the more.
Oron: And that is how to live. Not just for this instance, but for all instances; to support yourself through the expansion, to move in a way that doesn't try to pretend that the parts of you that are scared are there, which is how most people try to move forward - feel the fear, and do it anyway. We are not saying don't act when there is fear. We are saying take the time to nourish yourself. So that when you take action in the 3D world - which you are here to take as 3D physical beings - when you engage with the world from that place of supporting yourself and carrying yourself and soothing yourself, you will be soothing so much of the tension and the pain and the fee that you carry.
Because - we will end with this. A lot of the experiences that you have had in the world have created dynamics inside of yourself that have prompted you to reject you, aspects and parts of you. We speak to all of you. There is a desire to think positive thoughts and a desire to feel positive feelings and a subtle and sometimes not so subtle desire to shy away from, to ignore and to repress the fear, the doubt, the things that are over, lower vibration.
And as you turn to all of those parts of yourself and be with yourself, you will be healing all of the riffs that you have created inside of yourself in response to what you have lived outside, what you have seen outside, what you have been told outside.
And so that soothing that healing of your fears that you are speaking about is something that will be created as you nourish, support, love and actively heal yourself as you take the steps forward to what you are being called. And do not be surprised if you take those steps forward and then you are the - correction. And do not be surprised if you take those steps forward and as you do, you get called into another wildly surprising direction.
We love you. We love you. We love you. Go well.
Medha: That felt really different. I feel like it was different parts of Oron. I feel like there's this big amorphous blob and different parts come forward at different times. That felt like the ones that had been at the back came forward to talk to you. Inside of me, it felt really different. It's like the energies that were being called were the ones that normally hang back and watch or something.
It's like the front ones stepped out of the way and they came forward. So it felt not unfamiliar, but like a sprinkling of unfamiliar inside of me. You get what I mean?
Medha: How did it feel on your end?
Harris: Yeah. Good. I think it reiterated a lot of the thoughts that I had and even the - you know, I always feel like part of my awareness is watching what I'm saying and hearing it from that place. So even as I'm asking the question, I understand that I'm giving a dichotomy or like this or this. And I know, like, intuitively that I'm doing that, and that's not how it works. There was a lot of confirmation in there for me.
Medha: Oh, I'm so glad. They didn't say it but I -
Harris: Just the reassurance.
Medha: Go on.
Harris: Oh, just and a reassurance. Was all I was saying.
Medha: They didn't say it out loud. So sometimes it's like I feel like they might go this way or they might go that way, and I get a sense of which way. And they didn't say it, but I felt it inside of me kind of the message of "You already know." Like you already know. It's just that there's this other stuff that's calling your attention for a really important reason. And then you started talking about the healing the fears. But it was like the energy that was coming through with - like we have no problem telling you this again and again and again and again. The same way they say to me, the same way they say to everyone, but it's like, you're so wise, you're so connected. The wisdom and the knowledge is already inside of you. So deep down you already know. Which is why the talking creates that knowing inside of you. Like, "Yeah, I knew this." That's how most people hear Oron. "Oh, yeah, I knew that. Oh, shit, I forgot."
That's how so many people feel about it. It's like I knew that, but I needed to hear it. It's what I get so often from people. But they were like, "You already know. But the crucial bit about what you're going through now is that these theory bits that create, like, should and this and that because of the blinkers, because of the fear, that's why you feel like you're confused, even though you're not actually confused. Because deep down you already know.
Harris: Yeah. And I think it was just literally like, this question has come up in the last two days. So I booked this knowing that something would come up, because at the time that I booked it, I was like, "I have no idea what I'm going to talk about, but I know that something will come up and it's all happening and at all at the right time."
Literally two days ago, I started looking at all of these different job posts, and I just suddenly had this moment of like... Because I had this really set idea that I was just going to get something that was going to tide me over for a year or two. And then this idea that actually I could really have a career and something significant, and I've never really had that before in terms of employment. The fact that I was considering that freaked me out, and I was like - I had this moment of real, like, heartache almost of like, "Oh, are you really going to leave?"
Harris: I was like, "Well, that's not really how it works." And actually, I already know. And I tell this to people all the time, the actual way that you're making money is not necessarily anything to do with the effect that you're having on the world.
Medha: But it's also not separate because that's the other thing that I was saying. Yeah.
Actually, that reminds me of another. There was a few different angles that they kind of contemplated going. And the other one was - they didn't say this, but there's a lot of spiritual people, like, people who are trying to be conscious, who feel like doing a job is like a failure. You know what I mean? It's like a backwards. It's like, "No, I'm meant to blah, blah, blah. Like my life is meant to be blah." But sometimes it's like being willing to let go of that rigid idea of what it's meant to be and that I should be doing a job where I'm using my talents or my spirituality or whatever. Sometimes letting go of that is the most fucking spiritual thing you can do. You know? And just going with what you're being called towards.
Harris: Yeah, exactly. I'm totally confident because, I mean, I had a hair and makeup business for like six years. And during that time, so much of the - it's kind of like a cliché. It's a bit of a joke that hairdressers become unpaid therapists. That is definitely the case for me. And I mean that in a completely positive way. But I was confidant and so much of the effects that I had on people, and that's kind of what I think about, people having an effect on me and me then. And I was like, actually all of that stuff that I think about doing intentionally now - specifically within the setting of being self employed or a coach or something - I was actually doing it years before I even trained as a coach, and I will always do it. I can't help.
And even my friends or family, they say things to me now. I pick out things that they've said, and I'm like, Is that true? And they're like, "Oh, no, it's not." So I think I have to remind myself that I'm not. I can't ever not be that or do that. It doesn't really matter where I'm going.
Medha: Yeah, absolutely. It's always been who you are, but it's just evolving. And growing and expanding. And maybe doing it in different contexts will give you even more skills.
But it was really funny as well. And I said, don't be surprised if you're surprised by the fact that there's a pivot. Like another pivot at some point. I felt like I saw it. So head that way, head to a career, if that's what's calling you right now. Head there. But then at some point, you might head over here or over there or over there. So it's like you give you all to the thing, but then you're so connected to yourself because that's growing and growing and growing that fuck knows where you're going to pivot to anyway. I think that's the point they were making.
Harris: Yeah, I feel that and I knew that as well. I think, in my question - my internal question in the last couple of days - it's been really like, "Oh, so what will life look like then if you make this decision?" And it's like, "We don't know. Shut up."
Medha: Yeah. Getting comfortable with the discomfort of not knowing, that's like a massive part of all of this for all of us. Like not knowing how things are going to work out. I don't know. Our minds just freak the fuck out.
Medha: Awesome. Thank you. That was so good. I'm going to just stop all the recordings.
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