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  • Writer's pictureMedha Murtagh

Episode 99 – Our relationship to the natural world:

Updated: Feb 28, 2023

the relationship between the energetic and the physical

Our relationship to nature and the planet has gotten complicated. We used to live in a much more connected way. Both with ourselves and with our planet. Our changing relationship with the natural world means that connecting with nature needs to be a more conscious choice than in previous times. Forest bathing for healing, plant therapy, learning how to access healing from the earth - these things are no longer natural parts of our daily life. They need to be conscious choices. When you start to understand the relationship between the energetic and the physical (both with your mind and your feeling), you won’t just be changing your relationship with the earth. You’ll be changing your relationship with yourself and your world. If you want a conscious relationship with nature and are open to a channelled message about nature and the earth, this episode will help you understand that our body is not just physical, how nature heals, what ‘humans are energetic and physical’ means as well as whether or not we a separate from the Earth. Are you ready to awaken the new earth?

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What's our relationship to nature and the Earth [starts at 00:04:33]

The relationship between the energetic and the physical [starts at 00:08:21]

Why is being in nature healing for humans? [starts at 00: 14:52]


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Oron: We are here and ready and happy to play. But before we invite you to ask your first question, we wish to share something with you that you will find interesting, those of you who are interested in the process of channeling.

There is a recent thing that Medha discovered in herself when she does channeling. She has joked with a number of the recent guests on the podcasts and people that she has done private sessions with that she can't seem to channel when she's wearing a hat. She also can't seem to channel when she's wearing a scarf. The joke that she says to people and she finds humorous herself is that she has been imagining that the Oron energy, the energy, the wording, the information, the input that she is receiving from us, she has conceived that it is not capable of moving through wool. And so the joke that she has said to people many times is I don't know why they can't go through wool if they can go through the roof of the studio.

And the reason we are bringing this up is because she took a little longer to connect than normal. She had some socializing that she did before sitting down for this and normally she likes to take a little bit of time before she sits down to converse and then call us in and that was not available in this instance. But she had some joyous communication with some friends that she relished.

So she came in here with not a lot of time to spare. And when she started to connect in with us and create the openness inside of herself to allow the channeling to happen, she noticed that she happened to grab a jumper that is somewhat constrictive feeling in terms of the channeling experience she enjoys through her throat. It fuel a little bit like what a scarf feels and usually when she was wearing a scarf she chooses to take it off. So she had a process inside of herself when she was deciding should I take off the jumper or should I leave the jumper on?

And as she was moving through that process within herself, she decided or rather uncovered the playfulness of the idea of attempting to bring us through regardless of the fact that there was something impeding the sense of freedom that she usually feels like she needs to experience through her throat for us to come through.

The thing that we will confirm for Medha and that you will find interesting if you are interested in the process of channeling is that it is not the energy that is having any difficulty moving through a woolen hat and it is not a sense that the energy needs her space - correction. It is not that the energy needs space in front of her throat to allow the energetics to move through her throat area. That is our personal association. It is a personal preference of hers and she is delighted in the fact that she misunderstood the dynamics of the energy because she loves the process of discovery of the more and the more and the more and the more. Although deep down she knew that it was not possible for a woolen hat to keep the energy out, she also had a misunderstanding rattling around in her consciousness that has now been cleared up.

The biggest truth for her and for you and for all of you, is that you are able to communicate with the wisdom that is held by the entirety of the universe. And you do that inside of yourself. The resonance that you feel as we and other beings provide you with what we will call wisdom, the resonance that you feel is only ever experienced inside of you.

You access all of that wisdom inside of you. And the amazingness of the human experience on your 3D physical planet is that it is so alluring. All the things that lie outside of your body call your attention so much. And you develop and reinforce over time a feeling that most of the stuff that's delicious and valuable comes to you from the outside. But the truest truth is that it is always inside of you. There is nothing that can ram an experience into your beingness that does not already exist within you.

And so let's play from here. How can we be of service?

Esther: I love that. That's really delightful. One of the things I've actually been thinking about recently is questioning my own assumptions, beliefs, thoughts, and asking what am I making it mean? Which has been really powerful. And that resonates well with what you just said. So the subject I was thinking about for today when it comes to channeling, is...About the Earth, actually, and the 3D world that we're on and in. I think when it comes to channeling, a lot of us are thinking about what can I channel from the outside, from the spirit world, from beyond, from the cosmos or something like that, which is delightful.

But also, a friend of mine told me recently about a message she got from the Earth itself and it had to do with language and sound and vibration originating and coming from the Earth. And I found that fascinating and it stuck with me and I really wanted her to expand on it, elaborate on it and write about it, because this is something, a message I would share far and wide, I would want to. She felt reluctant, though, for her own reasons, which is fair. But also I feel like there is more there. Can we make more of connecting with the Earth, channeling her as a being, as Gaia, I suppose. And also that the messages she has for us. I'm thinking about things like my friend said about language and also about things like crop circles, because we've been wondering how these are, how they're made, how they created how they happen. And something I heard recently as well is that that might also be something that comes from the Earth. It's like an expression of the Earth, and I'm really curious about that. Can you speak more about that?

Oron: We'll say something that may seem initially a little confusing, and we are happy to explain it so that a level of clarity is experienced. The Earth in some ways could be conceived of by you as being similar to what you think of as God or the universe. The physical experience that you have upon your planet is all vibration. And there are levels upon it correction. And there are levels of that vibration that are more dense. And there are levels of that vibration that are less dense. And so language is sound when it is spoken, but there is vibration just in words as they are conceived within the consciousness of individual beings. And everything that you feel and experience in your body upon your planet is actually a part of the Earth. There is a misunderstanding that is held at present that you are separate from the Earth. There are ideas that some of you had that if this planet ends up dying because of the environmental calamity that many of you sense is coming, that there is a possibility that humans will be picked up and will go somewhere else. And although there is a technicality in which that is true, the truest truth is that the Earth is a part of you.

And so you have been made from Earth. Nothing has been trapped in from other planets. Nothing has been flown in to create the beingness that is you. You are made from her and so soul free now separate from her. We wish to pause and ask if you have any questions so far before we continue.

Esther: Wow. Yeah, I love that. What I'm thinking of as well is, like, the multi dimensionality of the Earth. I've heard it said before, like, we are of the Earth, not on the Earth. And I'm getting a sense of, like, because I've been playing with light, language and symbols a lot, and I feel like, how are we connected to the Earth? Some people say, like, the Earth star and perhaps a thread. I don't know. I'm getting a sense of, like, us as these symbols with this connection to the Earth. Yes. Can you speak a bit more about that?

Oron: The Earth is the plane upon which most of you play in your connection to the universe. The Earth is your experience, your playground, your lived not just physical, but you also experience your connection to the Earth in your emotions and in your mind. And the world that you conceive of usually is held within the beingness of you, which is so much more than what fits into your body. And in the same way, the Earth is an important part of the universe at large, and it is a connecting point for many of you. There is a lot of talk in the spiritual realm around the energy and their consciousness being more evolved than the more dense vibrations that exist. But those of you who are on this planet are here with the intention of being able to merge the experience, of being the energetics as well as being a physical. That is what you are on this plane to do. And there are levels of which many of you are embracing that as you have been living your lives in a physical body and there are many of you that are not. So the breadth of experience available in that game is massive.

And it is difficult for some of you when you can see the difficulty and in particular the pain that is being experienced by people on the physical plane. It is difficult for you to stay connected to the more higher ideals that you hold without creating a level of rigidity, a level of wish - correction, a level of wishing to fight against the things that you consider bad. And there is an exploration that is happening in the consciousness of humanity at present that is helping you to uncover the ways in which those experiences are preventing you from experiencing the wholeness of who you are. Some of you are more apt to think that the spiritual ideal is better. Some of you are more apt to feel like the physical is better, that the physical is more practical, more capable to be enjoyed and there and present in front of you, so it does not need to be questioned. So the movement towards wholeness that each of you are doing as individuals and that your entirety of humanity is doing as a collective is to embrace honour and love. We will use the words that you shared the multi dimensionality of the experience that is available for you here on your planet.

It is not a coincidence that you find yourself here and it is not a coincidence that you find yourself here. Now you are capable of sitting upon the Earth and expanding your consciousness to the entirety of the universe. And we return to Medha's experience of channelling when she sits to allow us to channel through her when we are coming through before those moments happen, she does some processes inside of herself that continue to change and evolve as both her energy and ours continues to change and grow and evolve. Part of what she does is connect into the physicality of herself. She grounds herself in an embodied experience and she feels as though she is connecting into the centre of the Earth. And that may run counter to what some of you may expect because if you are someone who conceived that, for example, beings like us and the energy that we come in with, that we provide, that we flow through Medha is of a higher calibre. You may be surprised by the fact that actually what she does to allow this process to come through is to firstly connect inwardly with the physicality of her and also the Earth.

And from that point she is able to expand her consciousness to the universe and to allow that to come through. And that is the perfect balance that each of you is actually striving to create for yourself in your lived experience. It is not one of demonising the physical and deeming the body bad and the ego wrong. It is exploration of the ways that you can live your spiritual experience with the expansiveness that you know is available on the physical realm. That is why you are here. There is a perceived conflict between those two things that is being ironed out but it is not being ironed out in a way that looks and feels smooth to you. You are aware, some of you, that water and rocks can correction. You are aware, some of you, that there is an ability of water to erode rock. You're aware that river rocks become smooth by water over time. The smoothness that you perceive when you pick up that rock is felt by you. But the friction that creates it is uncomfortable and difficult. The rock does not have the sentience to experience that as pain. But humans interpret things as pain, feel pain regularly.

And so what we are saying to you is you are currently in the process of coming to wholeness, not just with yourself. Medha speaks regularly with the people that she interacts about. The coming to wholeness with the parts of ourselves, inside of ourselves is how she says it. And that is wonderful because you are the macrocosm. Correction. You are the microcosm of the macrocosm. There are ways in which you hold the macro inside of you always. And so any movement towards wholeness is beneficial. But you are actually here for so much more than that. You are here to bring into wholeness your connection to the universe and the Earth is the portal through which you experience that.

Esther: That's really juicy. There is what was I just thinking? How can we open that pathway more? Is it through connecting with nature? What is connecting with nature actually do for us? Because I think lots of people might feel like it relaxes as well. It does feel connecting for a lot of people, I think, who are that way in tune. But I feel there's a lot more to it though. Can you speak about that more?

Oron: Being in nature reconnects you to the rhythms and flow of your own being. And nature, as we said, is an extension of you. You and the Earth are not as separate as what you conceive yourself to be. And as you experience yourself in nature, what you find is a feeling of letting go, of some of the tension that you hold. Your mind becomes a little quieter. It feels like it has a little more space as you immerse yourself in the experience of being with nature. And when you look at what nature shows you, there is a possibility that you will look at some things and consider them violent. But if you look at animals and plants and the ways that they interact, there is a level of flow that is present even between the hunter and the huntered. There is a level of ease that made her first experience when she consciously experienced the passing on of her dogs that she loved and adored. She was extremely aware of the human tendency to fight against and to wish to hold on whilst the animals in front of her were in total ease about what was happening and made conscious choices.

She was able to realise afterwards that experience and you have had it, all of you, in other ways. The ability to see the flow that nature allows helps you to connect to the innate flow that lives inside of you. The understanding that is happening now in science and in some of your more broad mainstream culture about the benefit of the flow state is something that each of you have felt to different degrees in your own personal experience and that is what lies at the core of their connection to nature. The relaxing of the fighting and pushing against that you mostly experience so consistently that you are somewhat numb to it. It becomes difficult for you to see. And for many of you, the process of doing the spiritual work, the personal development work, the consciousness work, what you are doing for yourself is attempting to let go of things that have felt heavy so that you can start to rise and rise in your level of consciousness. And when you do that, it is as though you are being lifted and you are able to see more clearly. You are able to see further into parts and aspects of yourself that you weren't not capable of seeing before.

But the game here is not to consider the things that you are letting go of to be bad and to feel like you must raise your vibration and you must raise your consciousness because that is the exact pushing against that you are endeavouring to let go of in your personal development and spiritual work. And so you are all getting a level of clarity around this. For some of you it is faster, for some of you it is a lot slower. And please know that how it is unfolding for you is perfect for you for the reason that your energetic system, your consciousness, is guiding the process that you are undergoing in ways that are far more deep than what you are aware. You do not need to worry about doing this fast. You do not need to worry about letting go of things so you can move forward and change the world and heal it, because that is not at all required. You are here to play you are here to expand, you are here to enjoy, you are here to bridge the gap that is perceived by so many of you between the physical and the spiritual.

Because you are both and both parts of that, both aspects of you, both of those are just as valuable as the other. They are in fact the other side of the coin, as you like to say. And there is no more value in the higher states than there is in the lower ones. Correction. Even describing them as higher and lower create a tension inside of you that makes you reluctant to honour the lower vibrations. But they are just as valuable and they are just as much a part of the universe. It is just that as you gain a level of mastery by which we do not mean control and we'll say that again and again and many of you won't be able to hear it. And that's perfectly okay because when it's time for you to understand it more deeply, you will, you can relax into that. And the tension that some of you are feeling right now as you listen to that, that you really would like to do it a little bit sooner is exactly what we are speaking about. But there is no problem in any of it. There is no problem in any of it.

Know that the journey that you are on is one where you do reclaim your power, but you do that from a point of having let go, of needing to fight and push against. And the best thing to stop fighting and pushing against dear ones is yourself. So as you move to a place of deep correction, as you move to a place of deeper acceptance of yourself one step at a time, you will accidentally dismiss the bigness of those little steps. But that's okay because you will take another little step and another little step and over time you will start to flow into a place of much deeper acceptance of self, much deeper support of self. And when you build that muscle, it becomes so much easier to accept the other things that appear like contradictions, for example, the energetic versus the physical. They are not contradictions. Without the energetic there is no physical. And on this plane, without the physical there is no energetic. That is a little bit of a riddle that your mind can play with if you wish, or you can just drop it. There is no need to understand. This is a feeling journey.

But the correction but as you learn to support your mind more and more, your mind will start to feel more and more safe to explore areas that have felt unsafe before. And so when you ask what can we do? Do we go to nature? What you can do is have the intention of learning to accept yourself more deeply, even just a bit. That intention, if it is held purely will catapult your growth, provided you are not demanding that your growth be catapulted. You are powerful, you are extraordinary, you are amazing. And you are working out how it all works. You are working out how you work and you are clearing up the misunderstandings. And as you do that, you will flow more and more and more and it will become much more natural for you to feel connected with the aspects of yourself. And that does not just mean the ones inside of your body, but also the ones outside the earth that holds you, that takes care of your every material need. That is you. You are made from the earth, you are not separate from it. It loves you. You love it. Sometimes there is a disconnect between the experience of your own self love and sometimes there is an experience of disconnection from your love of others and of the Earth, which is only ever a consequence of the perceived disconnection with yourself.

And so knowing yourself. Accepting yourself and loving yourself. Moving yourself to a place where you prioritise you and you value your joy. Your happiness and your fulfilment and you learn to take care of yourself. We'll help you to release a lot of the blocks that you have to opening up to your guidance. To your intuition. To your channelling. To all of the things that you are desperate to open up to. But more than anything. As you do that work of learning to love. Accept. Support yourself. Be with yourself. The you that you take to every experience in every plane of the multi dimensional available on this planet and beyond will be so much more full and you will be able to experience the joy of it so much more because you will not be looking for it as a salve to soothe the feeling of unworthiness or lack or fear or doubt that you experience inside. We have said many times your self love is the most healing force on the universe, on your planet, in the universe.

Esther: You said on the universe. Not in the universe, but on the universe.

Oron: That was an issue of the wording selected by the conscious mind of Medha. We were not trying to say anything tricky.

Esther: Okay.

Oron: But we like that you picked it up.

Esther: Yeah.

Oron: There is though, a depth to the universe that is going to become more available as your ability to relax and open your consciousness flourishes. And so we will just leave you with that. You sneakily caught a little something that was actually of value. It is interesting that the process of channelling is a process of opening up and unfolding. Medha has commented many times that it is interesting to open her mouth and not know what the words are that are going to be coming out. It is different to a normal conversation. So sometimes there is a slight issue of translation and you will hear that when we comment with correction, which happens often. Sometimes the reason we correct is because we have decided to take the energy in a different direction. And so we are concluding in the same way. We began by sharing with you the intricacies of the experience of channelling for you. Because that experience of flow. That experience of being connected to the highest divine energy in the universe. As well as the embodiment and the physicality of the Earth. As you play around with that and you start to live more from that place.

The magic that you are going to be able to create for yourself and your planet and your universe. Which is all a part of who you are. Is going to be so delightful for you. And we are looking forward to enjoying that journey with you. We love you. We love you. We love you. Go. Well.

Medha: Fuck, they've never said some of that stuff before.

Esther: Interesting.

Medha: Oh, wow.

Esther: Yeah.

Medha: So I can wear a neck thing now, you know?

Esther: That was so funny. That was so delightful.

Medha: I've joked about it a bunch of times with people. They said, where I go, well, if they can get through the roof, why can't they get through my hats? But I always like, why can't they? Like, that's what they were talking about. My feeling was that it couldn't come through if I had a hat. And it made no sense. But obviously that's not what do we make things mean?

Esther: And it's not rational, is it? Sometimes you have these beliefs and, like, these things that we accept as truth and it's like it makes no rational sense, but it's just something that we've integrated and given meaning to.

Medha: It's so funny. I'm in there and I can have things and it's like I can almost have thoughts about the things that's being spoken about when the channelling has happened. Right. And as you were talking or they were talking or something, I remembered I haven't had very many, like oh, my God, spiritual experiences in my life, but I've had a few. And one of the ones I had, I was in meditation, like really deep in meditation, and I had this feeling that the universe is silent, that everything that happens on Earth has got no sound. So that's interesting about your friend and side as well, and that things just happen and then we superimpose the meaning over the top of it and believe it to be true. Yeah, the things actually happening are silent, like, there's no meaning to any of it. And then we come along and it was so amazing when I was in that meditation, I wasn't breathing. Like, my breathing had stopped. And I remember I was so fucking deep in that that I went, my body probably needs to breathe now. And so then it's like I was in the silence and it's not like I was frozen, I wasn't rigid, I wasn't anything like that.

But I don't know how long I didn't breathe for. Felt like forever. Might have been a couple of who knows? But I remember it's like when the breath restarted, it's like I still could hold it, but I wasn't in the place of the silence anymore.

Esther: Yeah, that's so interesting because I've had moments of like, when you're between breaths and you're like, I don't know if I'll ever need to breathe again. I'm just here.

Medha: Yeah.

Esther: Like that and you're just there for a bit and then at some point, obviously, you breathe again. But it is a really interesting place to be in that space, right?

Medha: Yeah, there's a lot that's potential in there. I remember when I was training to be a yoga teacher, we did a lot of meditation about being in the space between the breaths, being in the space between the thoughts as well. It's really interesting. But I guess, like, what they're saying, being in that space and breathing and thinking and being human is kind of the goal. Right. For ages, I didn't really value the body all that much. I feel like this whole health thing that I've had for the last two and a half years has really been my body going, hey, so I've been on this massive journey of reconnection. And they talk to you about it. Like the fact that when I sit to channel, my first thing is to connect with me. I did. We had people around, it was really fun. And I was like, oh, it's time. Cool. So I went from one fun thing to the other fun thing. Right? But normally I would have had ten minutes, like, in my own energy without any kind of stimulation. That's what I normally do before I do a session with Oron.

But I just kind of came and the process, literally for me is closed my eyes, connecting with myself, get really connected in myself. Like I'm in my body, like my energy fuel. Like it's in my legs, it feels like it's in my feet, and then what's the order? So it changes and it plays around, but usually it's like that's always first, always closed eyes come in, like, move my body, adjust my body, be comfortable. That's when I go, hat off, scarf off. I do that and then the next thing is I feel like I connect into the centre of the Earth. Sometimes that feels like it's just a column of energy. Sometimes it fuel, like it's like a healing training. They call it a grounding court. Sometimes it feels like that comes from my root chakra down, or else my whole body down and I fuel really anchored in. And that's when what happens next is I almost feel like I can open up my skull. And I guess my whole mind feels like it opens, but then it goes out to the size of the universe and then I invite Oron in. And I used to feel like that.

Came in through the top of my head. That was what it felt like to me. Like, physically, like, it felt like it came to the top of my head, but now I fuel. Like they inhabit the entirety of the space and I'm just in the space. But they go from the high celestial realms all the way through to the centre of the Earth, the same as my connection to the centre of the Earth. They're not just coming into my head, they go into the Earth. The centre of the earth.

Esther: How interesting. Yeah. If you think about what they were saying about it was like as above, so below, as within, so without. There's not really any difference. Like it's a spatial thing, it's a 3D thing right. That we experience, but it's not really a thing from that perspective, I guess.

Medha: Yeah, and it's really interesting too, because I've seen a lot of that stuff around. Like, no, we need to quickly get to blah, blah blah, and anything less than that is deemed not that good, really. And what I've been getting from them more and more and more, it's like, well, you can't have they're intricately interconnected. There's a misunderstanding there to go, this is good, this is bad, because all of it is the universe. Like, all of it is valuable. And I think we do a similar thing with ourselves and our own growth. Like, past Medha used to do some really fucked up shit, right? Like she did. But it's not like past Medha was bad. Past Medha knew what she knew and did what she could with what she knew. And then she's grown and evolved. But she's not in my past, she's in me now. Without her and what she's lived and been through and done and endured and enjoyed and all that stuff, without her, there's no me. So, like, this isn't better Medha, you know what I mean? Like, that isn't bad Medha. And this is better just because I've evolved. I take her with me.

She's with me. And there's more choice and more consciousness available yet. And that is awesome. But it doesn't mean that the steps we took to get to that aren't valuable. Yeah.

Esther: And that's why it's so important to integrate as you talk about all parts of you, right?

Medha: Absolutely. Good.

Esther: And I find as well, like, when you do more of the self acceptance and self love, it can't help but radiate out. It affects everything. It affects how I see nature, how we interact with other people. It does, though. There's no separation there. I fuel.

Medha: Yeah, I think that's true. And I think also all I've said it a million times, our relationship with ourselves is how we enter the philtre through which we interact with every single other thing that exists. And so it's like if our connection with ourselves is like a dirty lens, there's nothing out here that can clean the lens and make it as deep and as profound as what is available. This is why our power lies here. But then people trying to manifest that used to be me as well would like, try and manifest out here where our power isn't.

Esther: Yeah.

Medha: And then go, why doesn't this work? I can't do it, it works for everyone but me. But we can't force the universe into a different configuration out here and we can't force ourselves into a different configuration in here. Which is what so much of my personal development work was for a couple of decades, trying to force myself to be better, to be different, to be more expanded, to be less judgmental, to be more this, to be less that or whatever. So it's like we usually either try and control the outside or then we get spiritual. And what that means is we try and control the inside.

Esther: Exactly right.

Medha: But control is that pushing against energy that they're talking about. So like the real journey still pushing.

Esther: And controlling and telling ourselves and there's no difference.

Medha: Exactly. Yeah. I'm not going to be judgmental from now on, like, I'm not going to be resentful, I'm not going to be like those decisions that we make and then try and enforce inside of ourselves is us trying to dominate ourselves. It's trying to control ourselves inside of ourselves. And you can't control your mind, you can't control yourself, you can work with yourself. Yeah. You can support yourself. Yeah. But I think didn't they say something like, we're going to talk about control and some of you will get it and some of you won't. Don't worry if you don't get it is what the feeling. They said something like that, didn't they?

Esther: I think so, yeah, something like that. I have to listen back now.

Medha: Yes. You're on a journey, it's all perfect, it's all interacting with your personal energy field, so it's going to be perfectly right for you. But that push that we've got to be better, do more, get there quicker, that's the energy of pushing against, that's the energy of resistance.

Esther: And I feel like by pushing, by resisting, you're separating and you need to do the opposite. We need to do the opposite. And that's really tricky. That's very not counter intuitive but maybe irrational or something. It's very mind based, isn't it? But that doesn't make sense. But it kind of really does. You're just saying that. I got a sense of like, for example, money manifestation and letting money in and stuff and I fuel, like, that is something that's been something I've been playing with, call it playing with for a while. I know you have had your journey with that as well and I just got a sense of like, what if we rather than look at this thing outside ourselves, what if we integrate it and look at it like an internal, in an internal way? I haven't got all the words for it yet, but I fuel, like there's something there of interest.

Medha: Yes, I get it. You've done some of my money energy programmes. Like what it is at the core, and it doesn't make sense to people when they haven't kind of played with it, though. It's really about stopping trying to make money, feel our need and filling that need ourselves and then making friends with money.

Esther: Yeah. It's so interesting, like, stop telling me how to feel good, I just want money, do you know what I mean? But it's connected.

Medha: But it's so much more than that. We want money to feel secure, we want money to feel like we've got choices, we want money to feel like we're empowered, but what we're doing is we're trying to outsource all of that inner work to this thing called money. But then what that means is that we're not a vibrational match to what money represents to us. If what we actually feel is like, we don't have that experience inside of ourselves and we want money to give it to us, so then it makes it impossible for the money to come because we're not a match. But we don't understand that. We just think that our manifesting doesn't work.

Esther: Yeah. And it's interesting as you get more layers of this and there's things that you can hear and you think, yes, I believe that, but it needs to really tune in you, doesn't it? You know it, but you don't know it yet.

Medha: Yeah. There's a massive difference and the more I'm getting embodied in stuff, the more I'm realising the difference. It's like, I don't think I understood it as well when I hadn't gotten it more in my beingness and when it was just in my mind, because for a long time I thought understanding something was just like, enough. But there's a really massive fucking difference between understanding something and knowing it. Like, in my being, like, there's a massive difference and you can't shortcut your ways of the feeling of it.

Esther: That's right. Yeah. You know it when it's there, and if it's not, then you can't make it.

Medha: Yeah. And that trying to make it is the pushing thing.

Esther: Yeah. That's slowed it down even more, doesn't it?

Medha: Yeah. And then again, we're like, well, why am I not powerful?

Esther: Where's my money?

Medha: Yeah. Works for them. And then we just get confused and feel more disempowered. But we're not. We just are until we aren't.

Esther: Exactly. So simple, really, isn't it?

Medha: Yeah, it's like, complicated but simple, really.

Esther: Yeah, simple not easy, I guess, but.

Medha: It'S funny because on the other side of it, it's easy, but it's like getting from here to here, that's the challenge.

Esther: Once it clicks, it's like, oh, well, yeah, it does.

Medha: The other thing they say a lot, though, which I think is really important and probably not always understood, is really important, is that sometimes we need to come across a concept, like, a thousand times for that familiarity to build in a level of safety, to make it accessible.

Esther: That's such a key thing, isn't it? If my guard feels safe for whatever reason, then we're just going to not sabotage ourselves. Because I'm not a fan of that term, but.

Medha: It's never sabotage. It's always protection or care in some way or whatever.

Esther: But such an important reframe, because then we just stopped beating ourselves up for, like, oh, I'm just sabotaging myself again and all this stuff.

Medha: Yeah, absolutely. That was so awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

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